Automatic tailgate question

something you need to ask , technical help here.

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Whats23mm
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Automatic tailgate question

Post by Whats23mm » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:11 am

06 B6 SE Estate... Electric tailgate opens no problem(ish) from the keyfob, button on drivers door and button on the tailgate itself.

Recently I saw a youtube video of a B6 where the guy was opening AND CLOSING his tailgate... Mine doesn't close.

The motors do the right thing, but there is no positive physical connection between the bracket-thing that sticks out of the motor and the tailgate hinge itself.

It pushes on the hinge to open no problem, but when it come to closing, there is nothing there to pull the hinge down again - the motor bracket retracts and leaves the hinge where it was (in the open position).

Clearly, there's something missing... It seems odd that VW would build something with a 'metal on metal' contact point (between the motor bracket-thing and the hinge)... maybe it had a tailgate swap at some point and has the wrong hinges or something?

I've searched the interwebs for clues but come up with nothing so far. Lots of video of the tailgate operating, but not the detail of the hinge/motor connection. Can you help?

Here's some pics (click for larger):

<--- Closed

Image

Image

Image

Image

Open -->

Many thanks. :)
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Re: Automatic tailgate question

Post by DMitch16 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:32 pm

That is because he has fitted an aftermarket closure system. The motorised boot was not a factory option on a B6 afaik.
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Re: Automatic tailgate question

Post by Rhinopower » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:25 am

You can clearly see the passenger side lever arm is missing the bolt.

Healthy motors will operate the tailgate on their own as a single motor. Not sure what has broken exactly on yours. I have an old pair of motors if you need parts for yours

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Re: Automatic tailgate question

Post by Whats23mm » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:36 am

DMitch16 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:32 pm
That is because he has fitted an aftermarket closure system. The motorised boot was not a factory option on a B6 afaik.
Cheers, Mitch... Curious... :-?

That stacks up, as the option codes in the book don't mention a powered tailgate:

Code: Select all

B0N = Component parts set, complying with vehicle type for Great Britain, various parts
CN9 = Alloy wheels 7J x 16 H2 Offset 45
G0K = 6-speed manual transmission
HJ7 = Tires 215/55 R16 97W x1
J0N = Battery 330 A (61 Ah)
D3X = 4-cyl. turbo diesel eng.2.0 L/103 kW 16VTDI with pump-jet injection system base engine: T9G/TB3/TM0/TP0/TC3/TD3/TQ0
1AT = Electronic stabilization program (ESP)
1G2 = Steel spare wheel with original equipment tires
2ZB = Leather multi-function steering wheel
5RV = Right exterior mirror: aspherical
5SJ = Left exterior mirror: convex
TB3 = 4-cylinder diesel engine 2.0 L unit 03G.B
3S2 = Black roof rails
8TD = Rear fog light for driving on the left
QG1 = Service interval prolongation
8YL = Radio with CD player
8GV = Alternator 180 A
8RM = 8 speakers (passive)
1LJ = Disc brakes, front
L03 = Suspension range 03 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YE = Weight range 5 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0GG = Emission standard EU4
... and nor does the old brochure (pdf) list it as an option, yet the "Passat Quick Reference Guide" (02.05-K-251.552.PLK.20) that's still in the document pack shows this:
boot button.png
So I'm guessing 'opened' here must just means 'unlocked and released', rather than fully opened?

Whatever, if it was an aftermarket addition, it looks like they did a fairly good job on most of it. But why go to such trouble and leave the crappy RCD300 head unit in there? People are strange.
Rhinopower wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:25 am
You can clearly see the passenger side lever arm is missing the bolt.

Healthy motors will operate the tailgate on their own as a single motor. Not sure what has broken exactly on yours. I have an old pair of motors if you need parts for yours
Thanks, Rhinopower. It's not so much the parts I need as the knowledge of what they look like.

Both sides are exactly the same. I managed to get the motors to stick in the 'almost closed' position and get a finger in on the top side of the hinges, it appears that there's a 4/5mm long stub of M6-ish bolt sticking up on the top side, so possibly a bolt broken off flush with the underside (I was fooled into thinking that there was no hole in the hinge to correspond with the hole in the motor arm). Would the bolts usually screw into a threaded hole in the hinge?

So yes, it looks like the bolts that link the hinge and motor arm have snapped. I'll try to unbolt the tailgate from the hinges one at a time to try to wind out what's left of the bolts (fat chance) or just drill them out and fit a new bolt with a nut on the top side of the hinges. I'd be grateful if you could confirm that these are M6? That feels a little weedy to me. High tensile, perhaps?

So the final question is: Is there a rubber component of some sort that sits between the motor arm and the hinge? The hole on the motor arm seems a fair bit bigger than the M6 bolt would require, so is that for a rubber bushing of some sort? I feel some creativity with tap washers and o-rings might be upcoming. :)
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Re: Automatic tailgate question

Post by Rhinopower » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:38 pm

M6 Yes

I have a spare pair of hinges if needed

There is nothing between them, just bolt together, im guessing yours has just gone rusty and corroded apart

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Re: Automatic tailgate question

Post by Whats23mm » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:49 pm

Thanks again, that's most helpful.

Am I right in thinking that these things usually open on the key (middle button), button on the drivers door and button on the outside of the tailgate itself, whereas the only way to close it is via the button on the underside of the tailgate (accessible only when tailgate is open)?
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Re: Automatic tailgate question

Post by Rhinopower » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:02 am

Correct

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Re: Automatic tailgate question

Post by Whats23mm » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:35 pm

Cheers.

There's something else I'll mention in case you can shed any light on it...

Sometimes (1 in 5?), when opening, it unlocks/unlatches, opens an inch then closes and latches itself again. Almost like it's taunting me. Holding the button for bit seems to make this behaviour less likely, but not always.

I'm assuming there are microswitches/sensors of some sort on the motors - when I first got it (before I even noticed the 'close' button on the lower edge) I was closing it by just yanking the tailgate down and forcing the motors back a bit, after which they powered up and retracted by themselves... how does it detect that you're trying to close if you haven't touched the button? I'm wondering if this aspect might be playing up.

I can't seem to find anything documented about them or their operation and interaction with the CANbus module... nothing in the VW SSP docs or the like that I've found so far - although, if I'm looking at B6 related stuff (in light of what Mitch stated above) I'm probably looking in the wrong place.

Any thoughts would (again) be appreciated.
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Re: Automatic tailgate question

Post by DMitch16 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:36 am

Thinking about it a little more logically - if you have the button for tailgate closure and pressing it closes the tailgate then you have all the hardware needed. Perhaps the automatic remote functionality can be activated or coded via VCDS?
Mad Mitch
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Re: Automatic tailgate question

Post by Whats23mm » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:58 am

OK, found it... looks like it was a factory option? :-??

SSP 356 - View here: https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-356-p ... tate-2006/
Download pdf here: https://fabione63.it/doc/SSP356%20The%2 ... 202006.pdf
(Page 10 through 15)

Lots of info in there. Magnetic clutches and hall-effect sensors... oooh! Will take a while to parse all that. :-?
DMitch16 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:36 am
Thinking about it a little more logically - if you have the button for tailgate closure and pressing it closes the tailgate then you have all the hardware needed. Perhaps the automatic remote functionality can be activated or coded via VCDS?
Well, there's this:



where the guy seems to be closing it remotely via the 'lock' button on the key... will try that out at lunchtime. :)
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Re: Automatic tailgate question

Post by Whats23mm » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:50 pm

Hmm... no joy there. Tried every combination of button presses on the key, but no closing. ~x(

But yep, it must be possible in coding... here's another one:



Not a clue in the video descriptions as to how it's done. The only clue might be in one of the comments: "VCDS...6D/16..10" Does that mean anything to anyone? (I don't have VCDS)
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Re: Automatic tailgate question

Post by DMitch16 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:37 pm

Whats23mm wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:50 pm
Hmm... no joy there. Tried every combination of button presses on the key, but no closing. ~x(

But yep, it must be possible in coding... here's another one:



Not a clue in the video descriptions as to how it's done. The only clue might be in one of the comments: "VCDS...6D/16..10" Does that mean anything to anyone? (I don't have VCDS)
The Americans on one of their forums go on about a kit or parts from Kufatec that retrofit the remote tailgate open and closing function.
Mad Mitch
B6 2007 2.0 Tdi 170 Sport DSG, BMR Engine, Phone Kit, Alarm chirps, Fogs as DRLs, Rain Auto Closure + VCDS MicroCAN, Double Oil Pump Drive Failure! Still Going 200K Club

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Re: Automatic tailgate question

Post by passatsel230 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:49 pm

Whats23mm wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:36 am
DMitch16 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:32 pm
That is because he has fitted an aftermarket closure system. The motorised boot was not a factory option on a B6 afaik.
Cheers, Mitch... Curious... :-?

That stacks up, as the option codes in the book don't mention a powered tailgate:

Code: Select all

B0N = Component parts set, complying with vehicle type for Great Britain, various parts
CN9 = Alloy wheels 7J x 16 H2 Offset 45
G0K = 6-speed manual transmission
HJ7 = Tires 215/55 R16 97W x1
J0N = Battery 330 A (61 Ah)
D3X = 4-cyl. turbo diesel eng.2.0 L/103 kW 16VTDI with pump-jet injection system base engine: T9G/TB3/TM0/TP0/TC3/TD3/TQ0
1AT = Electronic stabilization program (ESP)
1G2 = Steel spare wheel with original equipment tires
2ZB = Leather multi-function steering wheel
5RV = Right exterior mirror: aspherical
5SJ = Left exterior mirror: convex
TB3 = 4-cylinder diesel engine 2.0 L unit 03G.B
3S2 = Black roof rails
8TD = Rear fog light for driving on the left
QG1 = Service interval prolongation
8YL = Radio with CD player
8GV = Alternator 180 A
8RM = 8 speakers (passive)
1LJ = Disc brakes, front
L03 = Suspension range 03 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YE = Weight range 5 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0GG = Emission standard EU4
... and nor does the old brochure (pdf) list it as an option, yet the "Passat Quick Reference Guide" (02.05-K-251.552.PLK.20) that's still in the document pack shows this:

boot button.png

So I'm guessing 'opened' here must just means 'unlocked and released', rather than fully opened?

Whatever, if it was an aftermarket addition, it looks like they did a fairly good job on most of it. But why go to such trouble and leave the crappy RCD300 head unit in there? People are strange.
Rhinopower wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:25 am
You can clearly see the passenger side lever arm is missing the bolt.

Healthy motors will operate the tailgate on their own as a single motor. Not sure what has broken exactly on yours. I have an old pair of motors if you need parts for yours
Thanks, Rhinopower. It's not so much the parts I need as the knowledge of what they look like.

Both sides are exactly the same. I managed to get the motors to stick in the 'almost closed' position and get a finger in on the top side of the hinges, it appears that there's a 4/5mm long stub of M6-ish bolt sticking up on the top side, so possibly a bolt broken off flush with the underside (I was fooled into thinking that there was no hole in the hinge to correspond with the hole in the motor arm). Would the bolts usually screw into a threaded hole in the hinge?

So yes, it looks like the bolts that link the hinge and motor arm have snapped. I'll try to unbolt the tailgate from the hinges one at a time to try to wind out what's left of the bolts (fat chance) or just drill them out and fit a new bolt with a nut on the top side of the hinges. I'd be grateful if you could confirm that these are M6? That feels a little weedy to me. High tensile, perhaps?

So the final question is: Is there a rubber component of some sort that sits between the motor arm and the hinge? The hole on the motor arm seems a fair bit bigger than the M6 bolt would require, so is that for a rubber bushing of some sort? I feel some creativity with tap washers and o-rings might be upcoming. :)
Ours has it from the factory. 4E7. Works only now and again from the remote :-q
Have you been mis-sold TDi.

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Re: Automatic tailgate question

Post by Whats23mm » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:21 pm

Maybe it's just aftermarket kits that enable remote close, then. Can't find anything in VCDS, ODBeleven or Carista. Perhaps I should have bought a Skoda? :hyst

But it must be possible... whatever that tailgate button 'says' to J605 is only binary numbers.

Anyway, thanks all - I got the bolts done today and it now closes nicely. \:D/

Just in case anyone come across this thread in the future... I needed to completely remove the hinges (one by one) to get the broken studs out - with the following method:

Open tailgate fully, then remove the rear-most piece of interior trim/headlining, place a 12mm piece of ply between the (outside) roof and the (upper) edge of the tailgate on the side being worked on, then securely prop the tailgate open with a ~2 metre pole.

Drop the two splined head bolts that hold the tailgate to the hinge, then with a 13mm long reach socket, remove the two nuts that hold the hinge to the body - there is room between the headlining and the roof to get your hands in there and work blind. Don't drop the nuts. [-x

The drive arms (that couple with the motor) only slip over the splined motor shafts, so will drop out as you wiggle the hinge out.

With the hinge off and held in a vice, hacksaw a slot into the end of the broken bolt, soak with penetrating oil and attempt to screw out (flat 1/4 driver bit and a spanner worked once for me).

One decided not to play nicely, so got drilled out and a nut fitted uppermost on that side - if you can avoid this, all the better... there's not much room to get the nut on when it goes back together.

I initially tried to assemble the motor arm and the hinge before refitting to save some pain, but there's no room to slide the studs on the hinge back into their respective holes and slide sideways onto the splined shaft. I guess the correct way would be to remove the motors.

What worked in the end was getting the hinge roughly in place and fiddling the arms onto the motor shafts, before doing the hinge/body nuts up. Once the hinge is all done up, you can just about get the new M6 arm/hinge bolts in (and a nut if needed).

"Close the pod bay doors, HAL..." "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that... You'll have to go outside in the rain and push the button..."

Anyway... how was your day? :-
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