Page 1 of 1

Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:21 pm
by alpenweiss2
The track rod ends on our 1999 1.9tdi Wagon have started to knock so I have bought a pair of German supplied HD 4 yr guarantee off Ebay. I did not realise that the kit did not contain new pinch bolts and nuts. Anyway after soaking the nuts on the track rod end with Plus gas type oil for several days, I tried the other day to remove the track rod ends following the instructions in the Haynes manual. Came to undo the pinch bolt on the control arm that holds the balljoint spindle in place and the nut came undone okay. Wound it to the end of the thread and tried tapping the pinch bolt out with a hammer. It is stuck fast! Tried more plus gas and tried a bigger hammer. Still won't budge?? I gave up after a while as the kit I ordered did not have new bolts and nuts. I am sure I will really damage the old bolt and nuts trying to get them out?

Any advice? I am over in France and our nearest VW dealer is many, many miles away. Are these bolts available from the dealer? Anyone got the part number or nut size? How the hell do you get them out? It is like they are welded in?

Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:39 am
by alpenweiss2
Pretty please...anyone?

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:25 pm
by Critical_Mass
The dealers will sell them, but dont have a part number to hand.

Water gets in an corrodes them in place, plenty of soaking in plus gas and a hammer should do it. But i had to heat mine up with a torch. Get a socket on the end of the bolt and try turning it whilst its hot. If you get it moving, then use a centre punch to drift it out.

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:13 pm
by maclee
Two diagrams attached of the absolute horror that is the front suspension!

I have no idea about any of this area, but if you can quote the diagram ( A or B ) and the ref number of the component(s) you seek, there may be some info available about size etc, as well as the part number.

There appears to have been a change in 1999 model year, so please also quote the month of manufacture (if known), the engine code and whether your VIN is before or after the numbers below, (depending on whether it is a WD, WE or WP number):

3B-WD080 965------
3B-WE118 145------
3B-WP099 623------


Diag A.png

Diag B.png

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:40 pm
by alpenweiss2
Critical_Mass wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:25 pm
The dealers will sell them, but dont have a part number to hand.

Water gets in an corrodes them in place, plenty of soaking in plus gas and a hammer should do it. But i had to heat mine up with a torch. Get a socket on the end of the bolt and try turning it whilst its hot. If you get it moving, then use a centre punch to drift it out.

I think this is what has happened with mine. You mention putting a socket on the bolt and turning after heating but on the rear of the control arm the bolt is blind (flattish curved head with a flat on one side to stop it turning) and the nut that goes onto this bolt is at the front facing out towards you. I managed to get the nut off okay but it is the bolt that is stuck fast in the control arm? I need to source new bolts before attempting this job. I guess heating up the joint destroys the balljoint rubber?

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:45 pm
by alpenweiss2
maclee wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:13 pm
Two diagrams attached of the absolute horror that is the front suspension!

I have no idea about any of this area, but if you can quote the diagram ( A or B ) and the ref number of the component(s) you seek, there may be some info available about size etc, as well as the part number.

There appears to have been a change in 1999 model year, so please also quote the month of manufacture (if known), the engine code and whether your VIN is before or after the numbers below, (depending on whether it is a WD, WE or WP number):

3B-WD080 965------
3B-WE118 145------
3B-WP099 623------



Diag A.png



Diag B.png

Brilliant information, thanks Maclee!

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:16 pm
by maclee
Do you mean Diagram A, item 8?

If so, the part number is:

4D0407192C

It is an M10 x 50 'lock screw'.

Photos:


bolta.jpg




boltb.jpg

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:33 am
by alpenweiss2
maclee wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:16 pm
Do you mean Diagram A, item 8?

If so, the part number is:

4D0407192C

It is an M10 x 50 'lock screw'.

Photos:



bolta.jpg






boltb.jpg
Brilliant work Maclee..that's the one and the M10 nut is number 9. Think I will order these from a UK main dealer and get them collected and posted out by a UK relative. Cheers!

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:14 am
by Critical_Mass
alpenweiss2 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:40 pm
Critical_Mass wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:25 pm
The dealers will sell them, but dont have a part number to hand.

Water gets in an corrodes them in place, plenty of soaking in plus gas and a hammer should do it. But i had to heat mine up with a torch. Get a socket on the end of the bolt and try turning it whilst its hot. If you get it moving, then use a centre punch to drift it out.

I think this is what has happened with mine. You mention putting a socket on the bolt and turning after heating but on the rear of the control arm the bolt is blind (flattish curved head with a flat on one side to stop it turning) and the nut that goes onto this bolt is at the front facing out towards you. I managed to get the nut off okay but it is the bolt that is stuck fast in the control arm? I need to source new bolts before attempting this job. I guess heating up the joint destroys the balljoint rubber?
I dont recall mine being like that on the end, maybe they were and im misremembering. But it was just a suggesting. If you cant turn it. Only way it to try drift it out with a large hammer and centre punch.

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:06 am
by BIG F@ TW@
Put the bolt back on until it is flush with the bolt and bray the hell out of it with a hammer.

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:37 pm
by maclee
Item 9. M10, self-locking (flanged) nut, part number: N 10286102
s-l225.jpg

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:50 pm
by maclee
Two other possible way fo extracting that bolt:

1. Refit the nut, (do not tighten it), so as to make the end of the bolt a larger target area, (as described above).

Use a two-leg bearing puller to grip either side of the head, apply pressure with the puller to the threaded end of the bolt so as to push on it, and then tap with a hammer. Repeat as necessary to free the bolt. This will often free a jammed item and requires less violence than using the hammer alone. Obviously though, it needs there to be enough area around the bolt head to be able to locate the arms of the puller.


2. Angle grinder - cut off or grind away the head of the bolt.

Tighten the nut so as to pull the (now headless) bolt right through the fitting. When the nut reaches the end of the thread, (the bolt-head end), remove the nut and place a spacer under it, (washers, a larger nut etc), and tighten the nut again to pull the bolt further through.

If you choose this method, try also applying tension with the nut, and then using a centre push on the beheaded section of the bolt shaft to tap it through a little at a time. Re-tension the nut and use the centre punch again. Repeat this until you have drawn the remains of the bolt right through.

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:44 am
by passat-pd130
if you cant heat it No 2 above works as said

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:41 am
by alpenweiss2
Had another go at this job today after weeks of spraying the pinch bolt knuckle with penetrating oil. What a PITA!! The nuts which tighten the control arm knuckle pinch bolts both came loose easily as did the two top bolts. However the pinch bolts are stuck fast. Put the bolt on the end of the thread of the pinch bolt and hammered the hell out out if but the pinch bolts didn't budge a mm!

Not sure what to do? We live in the middle of nowhere in France so cannot be stuck without the car if we break something? I have a small gas heat gun but obviously this will destroy the rubber on the track rod end. If I still cannot get it off then I have destroyed the seal on the track rod?

I have new pinch bolts and nuts and two new heavy duty track rod ends?

Would it be easier for a garage to undo with an air wrench? Maybe they can tighten then loosen to break the rusted seal?

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:38 am
by BIG F@ TW@
Does the bolt turn at all?

Sent from my brain Telepathetically...


Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:40 am
by alpenweiss2
BIG F@ TW@ wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:38 am
Does the bolt turn at all?

Sent from my brain Telepathetically...
No unfortunately it appears seized solid. The nuts came off easily enough (top nut and ut on pinch bolt) I screwed the pinch bolt nut back on so it was flush with th end of the pinch bolt and hammered the hell out of it, but it didnt budge even a mm? Given up for today.

My problem is a knocking/rattling noise on the front suspension only really heard on gravel roads and bumps. I have had it checked by a garage and all the control arm bushes look good. Top mounts are good and solid. ARB bushes are new. Drop links look good. Garage guy got me to hold each front wheel whilst he moved the steering wheel. Could feel play so assumed the track rod ends are knackered. (could also be inner balljoints, but it is a process of elimination). I have bought new heavy duty German track rod ends and new pinch bolts and nuts. Just cannot get the old pinch bolts out on either side to remove the track rod ends from the steering arm!! Why are old cars such a PITA? (rhetorical question!!)

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:45 am
by BIG F@ TW@
If I'm reading that correct, you want to change your TRE's, if this is correct then you don't need to remove the pinch bolt.

Just undo the TRE

Or have I misunderstood?

Sent from my brain Telepathetically...


Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:46 am
by BIG F@ TW@
Is this what you want to change chap?

Sent from my brain Telepathetically...


[IMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201908 ... 1032d1.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:03 pm
by gtijames
In your pic the ratchet is on the tre pinch bolt, it's not the upper arm pinch bolt he's trying to do hopefully!

Re: Seized bolts on track rod ends.

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:05 pm
by BIG F@ TW@
AHH yeah, sorry was at a football game. I've re read the post and it IS the TRE pinch bolt he wants you free off.

Bum

Next thing to try would be heat I suppose.



Sent from my brain Telepathetically...