IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

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pointer
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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by pointer » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:11 pm

Thanks, just to be clear, the distributor cap is on correctly as that will only go on one way! It is the position of the leads them selves within the cap that I was describing.

I will have a look to make sure the other aspects you refer to are OK, but as I haven't changed anything as far as the distributor body is concerned I suspect that they will be OK.

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fonzooorooo
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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by fonzooorooo » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:42 pm

Just checked in on here for the 1st time in months!

Some of these SPIs are REALLY fussy about ignition timing - the ECU learns when the spark is, and regulates to suit... Those need plugging into vagcom to set up. (yes, really - we've got a mk3 cabrio that does - and when it was out after a dizzy replacement it'd be cranking, cranking cranking before a ropey warmup and sub-optimal running) ... I'm not 100% sure if the RP is like that though!

If you've still got no spark though, there's only really the coil, plugs/leads and the hall sender in the distibutor (which itself is not uncommon to fail!)... If you've changed the coil and it's dodo dead, I'd go hall sender next - I've seen them as a seperate part, or you could replace the whole dizzy.

With the engine set to TDC, and the dizzy cap removed, the rotor arm should point toward the back and its centre should point to a little notch in the casing... If that's the case, #1 plug lead should come out above that, then 1342 clockwise from there.

If you DO have a spark, the usual suspects for funnny running or warmup are coolant temp sender, then the rubber mount for the SPI unit which crack and let air in, throwing the mixture out.

Copious carb cleaner will clean out the SPI unit (which CAN fail, but it's rare) ... Worth unplugging it again and lashing a load of electrical cleaner in the plugs (and obviously making sure they're REALLY seated) too, especially if it's all a bit oily and dirty.
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pointer
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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by pointer » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:38 pm

Thanks for that, something to chew on.

Two queries

1 What does SPI stand for?
2 Is there any way of checking a hall sender, I only have a multimeter? :-??

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Alan Gunn
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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by Alan Gunn » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:14 am

Single point injection well i think it is.
Not sure if you can test the hall-sender.
Image

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fonzooorooo
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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by fonzooorooo » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:09 pm

Sorry for the delay - I'm totally out of the habit of checking up on here(!)

Yes, Single Point Injection

I've never actiually tested one - I've always been in the poistion of having a spare or 2 knocking around.. not sure I have any more though! ... Anyway, A moment on Google found this on ClubGTI:

Hall sensor:
1 Check that the ignition system wiring and plugs are fitted correctly.
2 The coil and TCI-H unit must both be in good condition.
3 Pull the HT lead from the centre of the distributor cap and earth it to the engine or
bodywork.
4 Pull back the rubber boot from the switch unit and connect a voltmeter between terminals 6 and 3.
5 Switch on the ignition and turn the engine by hand in its normal direction of rotation. The voltage should alternate from between 0 and a minimum of 2 volts. If not, the sender is faulty and must be renewed.

(Not something I've tried, so can't guarantee, but as you're only measuring voltage, I can't see how it'd fry anything!)
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fonzooorooo
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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by fonzooorooo » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:12 pm

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pointer
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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by pointer » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:07 pm

Sorry I haven’t been in touch but my son and his partner Liz have been over from Australia and we have been out and about a lot recently although I have tried some work when I could.
As the coil distributing company has dismissed any thoughts of mal-function, I re-started investigating elsewhere.

1. Having replaced coil, distributor cap, rotor arm, leads and spark plugs with no improvement, I even used jump leads from my other car in case the voltage was too low, but that didn’t help.
2. As I am getting very frustrated, I decided to let my local garage investigate, so I contacted RAC to help out and possibly tow me to the garage.
3. After carrying out several checks including if fuel pump was running, the operative stated that he thought the spark was quite weak, but he opened up the SPI. To my amazement, he found that one of the pins on the internal injector was bent ! (Clumsy me!!) He straightened the pin and replaced the SPI. This time it started and seemed OK. :ymhug:
4. Next day I tried to start the car but it took a few turns before firing. I switched off after a few minutes and tried to restart immediately, but no joy. :-q I contacted the RAC again and they arrived within the hour, different chap. He found there was plenty of fuel getting to the SPI although he agreed that the spark was on the weak side.
5. As he could not find anything obvious, I mentioned I had a 2nd hand Motronic ECU and should we give that a try. This we did and the car started although a little lumpy. We switched off and tried re-starting and this time it did start, so RAC chap felt he had done enough. I then contacted my local garage and agreed for them to take charge!! x_x
6. Next day the car started but was quiet lumpy and would stall if I took my foot off the pedal. I had a harrowing drive into town and left it with them. Once they have had a look, I will update this thread.

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fonzooorooo
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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by fonzooorooo » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:20 pm

Absolute nightmare!

Without reading back through, have you cleaned the main engine earth strap up? (Silly thought that might help beef a spark up)

If you find yourself wanting to try a different SPI unit, let me know - I've got a couple. (If it's all spark related, it obviously won't make a difference!)
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pointer
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Re: ERRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by pointer » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:24 pm

I DID DISCONNECT THE STRAP AND THEN RECONNECTED, SO SHOULD BE OK.

TO CUT A LONG STORY SHORT, I WENT TO THE GARAGE TO TAKE PHOTOS AND THEY TOLD ME THE PART THAT WAS BROKEN WAS A SMALL THERMISTOR LOCATED ON THE CAP OF THE INJECTOR ITSELF. I HAVE TAKEN PHOTOS AND THE ONE ATTACHED SHOWS THE PART NUMBER FOR THE SPI UNIT AS WELL AS THE INJECTOR CAP THAT HAS AN INTERNAL 4WIRE LEAD TO AN EXTERNAL CONNECTION POINT.

THE SPI PART NUMBER (0 438 201) AND THE CAP/LEAD ARE BOTH SHOWN ON THE ATTACHED PHOTO, SO IF EITHER ARE AVAILABLE, IT WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

REGARDS,
BILL
image3.jpeg
HOPEFULLY IT IS ATTACHED!
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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by maclee » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:47 pm

Parts diagram of the SPI unit:


spi.png


Item 7:

'Retainer for injector' VW part number 051133029

Cheapest on ebay is £185.



Its Bosch part number is 3437010523

Cheapest on ebay is £105, (from Greece):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plug-Injecto ... OSw8Ehb79s~
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pointer
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Re: ERRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by pointer » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:14 pm

Thanks for those details but on checking them further I don't think they are suitable for my car.

However, I have been in touch with a VW dismantler in Essex (Stevens) who had a used one in stock, so I've bought that for £55 inc P+P, and hope for the best!

I'll update the thread either way when it is fitted. :-

pointer
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Re: ERRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by pointer » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:43 am

At the moment, my local garage have fitted the replacement used SPI unit but they are of the opinion that the timing is out as it is not running ‘smoothly’ for them, but I explained I haven’t touched the timing. They are short staffed at present as it’s at the start of the silly season of school holidays, so no work done for the past week!

Is there something electrical ie, components I have changed already that that would effect the ‘smooth’ running?

Any advice appreciated as my mind is very confused!! :-?

pointer
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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by pointer » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:09 pm

Come to think of it, a previous post mentioned the possibility of a faulty hall sender which to be honest I hadn't tried. I will try and get one and pass it to the garage to install. :| :| :|

pointer
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Re: ERRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by pointer » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:06 pm

I'm still awaiting delivery of a hall sender but I spoke with the garage and suggested they swap back the ECU as I had changed it before we knew the thermistor in the SPI was broken. So fingers crossed. :-?

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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by Mindriot » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:11 am

I think a lot of this is chasing rainbows, much focus on one specific issue, when going back and reading post 1 suggests there are a number of issues of concern regarding the general condition of the engine, poor condition, quite serious ones that would suggest a serious inspection at the least.

pointer
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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by pointer » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:37 pm

The garage took up my suggestion to swap back the ECU as they weren’t happy with the engine tick over. Lo and behold everything now works OK. I even drove into Canterbury on a hot day with no ill effects. :-bd

The only problem I now have is waiting for a refund on the hall sender for which I had cancelled the order before the item was despatched. They replied they would try and stop delivery but process a refund once it was back with them. :-q

My response was that as I had cancelled the order BEFORE dispatch, I expected a refund without delay, not waiting for the item to be returned to them, although I did ask them to make arrangements to collect and return it if it was delivered. Fingers crossed! :-??

Thanks to all that have contributed to this thread. ^:)^

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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by pointer » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:04 pm

I have now received a full refund for the hall sender including the postage, and the car is still running sweetly. ^:)^

My only problem now is to repair the driver's door window mechanism which seems to be 'buckled' due to a broken plastic slider, but I have seen a website that is selling new replacements for about £20 so I'll probably order one of those if I am unable to make a repair.

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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by Mindriot » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:22 pm

The kits arent too hard to fit, but require a full door strip down. Usually it involves drilling out rivets holding the old slider channels and then fixing on the new ones.

pointer
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Re: IRRATIC START WHEN COLD

Post by pointer » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:46 pm

As a matter of interest, where did you get your 'kit'. Having taken mine apart over the weekend, it differs from that I have seem on the internet. Mine has a spring slightly offset from the 'winding' part of the mechanism.

I also have problems in that I took the window out of the 'clip' at its bottom, and I can't get it back in again!!!

I will probably start another post on the subject.

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